John C. Lilly (1915-2001) became well known for his study of dolphins and research into human/dolphin communication. Heinz von Foerster (1911-2002) was an Austrian-born scientist recognized as one of the pioneers in cybernetics and artificial intelligence. Both John and Heinz were friends of Kurt. This recording was made by Kurt in 1975 during a small conference about inter-species communication. It runs about 20 minutes, and takes a short while to load.